Author Topic: New mazda 3 on order  (Read 1566 times)

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Offline misar

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2019, 05:18:14 PM »
I have had a Mazda 3 GT Sport Tech from August.

As in my post last week, I would be interested to know what thought if any you gave to the forthcoming X engine before deciding to purchase.

Offline dunhill1984

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2019, 11:33:33 PM »
Thx i will give them a ring monday.
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Offline servlox3

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2019, 06:55:25 PM »
I road tested a 2.0 GT Sport Tech on the first day they arrived at my local dealership back in May. Loved the car as a step up from the Gen 3 in many of its refinements, BUT found it underpowered especially against my current Gen 3 165ps. So I have decided to wait until the 180ps Skyactiv X becomes available and then I think I will be buying one.

I don't really understand why Mazda gave us the carrot of the Skyactiv X with its increase in power and fuel economy but chose to release the Gen 4 with just a mediocre engine? OK so I understand the Skyactiv X development ran behind schedule, but they could have at least given us a Skyactiv G petrol with an increased PS tweak as per Gen 3.

So for me (and maybe I'm not alone?) I can wait for what should be the better engine package.           
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Offline Engineer Andy

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2019, 08:44:43 PM »
I road tested a 2.0 GT Sport Tech on the first day they arrived at my local dealership back in May. Loved the car as a step up from the Gen 3 in many of its refinements, BUT found it underpowered especially against my current Gen 3 165ps. So I have decided to wait until the 180ps Skyactiv X becomes available and then I think I will be buying one.

I don't really understand why Mazda gave us the carrot of the Skyactiv X with its increase in power and fuel economy but chose to release the Gen 4 with just a mediocre engine? OK so I understand the Skyactiv X development ran behind schedule, but they could have at least given us a Skyactiv G petrol with an increased PS tweak as per Gen 3.

So for me (and maybe I'm not alone?) I can wait for what should be the better engine package.         

I'm sure they would've liked to sell the 3, CX-5 and 5 (including the prev gen Mazda3) with their 2.5L petrol SA-G engine in the UK/EU, but given it has a much higher CO2 emissions level than the bog-standard 2.0 petrol, I think they would be concerned that selling enough of them (I'm sure it would be popular) would mean they breached the EU corporate CO2 limit, meaning that for every car they sold, they would be fined, and they aren't a big firm, so it would be quite a big deal to them.

Those cars are sold with the 2.5L engine in North America and Down Under, some even with a turbocharged version (perhaps only the bigger models, including the CX-7 and CX-9 which aren't sold in Europe, likely for similar emissions reasons).  The new 2.0L SA-X is about the same power as the 2.5 SA-G, but I suspect it has quite a bit less torque, similar to the 2.0 SA-G 165 in the gen-3 Mazda3.  I bet that when driven normally, the SA-X is a bit more spritely to drive than the standard 2.0L SA-G, but far more economical, but to get the full power (around 185PS), it isn't that much better on the mpg front compared to the 2.5L SA-G.

Personally I'd prefer the 2.5 with the extra torque on tap, especially at lower revs, which would make the drive a more relaxing one, not having to rag it to get a decent amount of performance out of it.  A shame we won't see it in the 3, other in a few of the Mazda6 models, it appears.  The SA-X equippped 3s seem to have a very high list price, getting rather close to that of a BMW 2-series with a 1.5T petrol engine, as well as of the new (supposedly much improved) Toyota Corolla 2.0 hybrid, which has about the same power and whose engine is much more highly regarded than the lame 1.8 hybrid (the CVT box also works much better - it has a proper '1st gear' separate to the main CVT gearbox).  None cheap, coming in around the £27k+ mark on list price.  Not much in the way of discounts at present

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2019, 08:25:22 AM »
I found an interesting comment on the SA-X engine in a brief test of the new CX-30 on the Honest John website. For those not familiar with the website they are usually very positive about Mazdas. Ignore the Skyactiv-D in the title:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/mazda/mazda-cx-30-skyactiv-d-2020-road-test/

If the CX-30 has a real weakness it’s the engine line-up, weak partly because of Mazda’s refusal to follow the downsizing/turbocharging trend. Instead, the company has developed a compression combustion petrol engine that in theory combines the positive torque and efficiency characteristics of a diesel with the refinement of a petrol -  the so-called Skyactive-X, a world first in a production car.

It’s an impressive technical achievement and an absolute win-win in principle. Very simply put, it uses a supercharger to help create a very lean air-fuel mix that can be combusted via compression, like a diesel engine. But it still has spark plugs and can fire the cylinders using those, like a standard petrol engine. The immediacy of compression combustion gives diesel engines their low rev torque characteristic, but where a diesel would usually hit a hard limit at fairly low revs too, the SkyActive X has a higher limit, like a petrol. Best of both worlds, right?

Not right. Unfortunately the engine still feels sluggish, almost ponderous from the mid-range and ultimately nowhere as near as punchy as its 180PS claimed peak power suggests it will be. It’s quiet, but it also has an occasional lumpiness - that being the only suggestion that this is anything other than a standard, mid-level and slightly depressing naturally aspirated petrol engine. As in, the sort that the CX-30 already has in the 122PS SkyActiv-G.

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2019, 09:44:12 AM »
You'd only have to wait until October for the CX-30, I think.
Have you any info on the UK release date Andy?  I've signed up to the official Mazda 'we'll keep you informed' emails but heard nothing as yet.  I really don't see it being available in 5 weeks.

I see the CX-30 now features on the Mazda website, complete with prices and specs.

Offline Engineer Andy

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2019, 10:48:42 AM »
I found an interesting comment on the SA-X engine in a brief test of the new CX-30 on the Honest John website. For those not familiar with the website they are usually very positive about Mazdas. Ignore the Skyactiv-D in the title:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/mazda/mazda-cx-30-skyactiv-d-2020-road-test/

If the CX-30 has a real weakness it’s the engine line-up, weak partly because of Mazda’s refusal to follow the downsizing/turbocharging trend. Instead, the company has developed a compression combustion petrol engine that in theory combines the positive torque and efficiency characteristics of a diesel with the refinement of a petrol -  the so-called Skyactive-X, a world first in a production car.

It’s an impressive technical achievement and an absolute win-win in principle. Very simply put, it uses a supercharger to help create a very lean air-fuel mix that can be combusted via compression, like a diesel engine. But it still has spark plugs and can fire the cylinders using those, like a standard petrol engine. The immediacy of compression combustion gives diesel engines their low rev torque characteristic, but where a diesel would usually hit a hard limit at fairly low revs too, the SkyActive X has a higher limit, like a petrol. Best of both worlds, right?

Not right. Unfortunately the engine still feels sluggish, almost ponderous from the mid-range and ultimately nowhere as near as punchy as its 180PS claimed peak power suggests it will be. It’s quiet, but it also has an occasional lumpiness - that being the only suggestion that this is anything other than a standard, mid-level and slightly depressing naturally aspirated petrol engine. As in, the sort that the CX-30 already has in the 122PS SkyActiv-G.


I read that report too (I'm also a member there) - it reminds me of the Civic Type R N/A 2.0 VVT engine from the early 2000s, but without top-end kick, and rather a disappointment after all the hype (especially given the high list price of the cars).  Many people now want cars that yes, are quiet, economical and smooth when pottering around for the most part, but also want a decent amount of poke quickly on tap without the need to thrash the nuts of it, which is what the small-capacity turbo petrols, especially the VAG 1.4 TSI ACT 150 (its replacement, the 1.5EVO much less so due to its 'kangerooing' problems, also on HJ's website), are very good at.

I'm wondering if this is the reason why the gen-4 Mazda3 did not get the SA-X engine from the start - Mazda found it wasn't as usable as they had hoped, so they watered it down and are perhaps now developing the mkII version for the range for the next new car and the 3 and CX-30's midlife upgrade in 2-3 years time.  I'm always hesitant to buy a new car that has completely new tech in it for a major component (like the engine) until it has been proven for both reliability and usability.  Even VAG didn't get the 1.4TSI right first time, with timing chain problems, significant oil usage and general reliability/longevity issues on the twincharger version and so revised it after a few years to the belt-driven version sold up until 2018.

Only time will tell if the SA-X mkI will be a decent engine.  We might (still a very low chance, especially given what's going on in London at the moment) get the chance to have the 2.5L SA-G in the 3 if we do actually leave the EU and are therefore not obliged to follow their corporate CO2 rules for car manufacturers selling in the UK.  Still unlikely though.

Offline dunhill1984

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2019, 11:22:42 PM »
I agree andy ,trouble is these new car developments always tomorrow when you are deciding what to get today :(

I would be interested to know what thought if any you gave to the forthcoming X engine in the 3.

It seemed to me that a 50% power increase on the current 2.0L is a very large move up. Also the first ever mainstream supercharged, compression ignition petrol engine is a step into the unknown for buyers even if professional reviewers rave over it.

the car is to replace wifes 5 yr old fiesta so i wasnt going to spend £2.5k extra on the X engine when the normal one is already better than fords one
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Offline Engineer Andy

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2019, 07:40:02 PM »
I agree andy ,trouble is these new car developments always tomorrow when you are deciding what to get today :(

I would be interested to know what thought if any you gave to the forthcoming X engine in the 3.

It seemed to me that a 50% power increase on the current 2.0L is a very large move up. Also the first ever mainstream supercharged, compression ignition petrol engine is a step into the unknown for buyers even if professional reviewers rave over it.

the car is to replace wifes 5 yr old fiesta so i wasnt going to spend £2.5k extra on the X engine when the normal one is already better than fords one

Had you driven the gen-3 car at all before?  I ask, as the 2.0 SA-G engine (120PS) is supposed to the same as the standard one in the gen-4 car, with the addition of the light hybrid motor to run the electrics.  When I test drove that engine in a gen-3 Mazda3 and a CX-3 a couple of years ago, I found it, well underwhelming, and that much more spritely than my current 13yo gen-1 car with its 1.6 petrol engine.

The latest one is supposedly (if the official 0-60 figures are to be believed) a whole second slower to 60 for the manual version (over 10sec), and about 0.5 sec slower for the auto.  Sounds very odd to me that they've made it worse and by so much at acceleration by is using essentially the same engine.  Can't really compare the new diesel with the old because they are all of significantly different engine sizes.

Offline dunhill1984

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2019, 09:12:18 PM »
Hi andy,no i have not driven a gen 3 or 4 at all, no test drive  bought on faith in mazda (did the same with cx5) and the engine has 122 ps.wife just wants a reliable motor, she wont (unlike me) be doing any speeding or overtakes. i will let you know how it drives when we collect on tuesday pm.
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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2019, 10:58:35 AM »
Hi andy,no i have not driven a gen 3 or 4 at all, no test drive  bought on faith in mazda (did the same with cx5) and the engine has 122 ps.wife just wants a reliable motor, she wont (unlike me) be doing any speeding or overtakes. i will let you know how it drives when we collect on tuesday pm.

It wasn't anything to do with outright top speed or the ultimate 0-60 time, but the overall lackluster performance when compared to my much older-designed 1.6 petrol engined car, whilst OK in terms of performance, isn't that good, especially when you need a bit of oomph to overtake a slow moving vehicle on a single lane carriageway or pull out into faster moving traffic.  The gen-3 car I test drove was barely any better, despite having 20% more power and 40% more torque.

I think part of that was, despite all the 'Skyactiv' weight saving, my gen-1 car was still 50kg lighter, which likely negated the more powerful engine of the newer model.  The gen-4 car is 100kg heavier than mine - obviously most of that is due to the larger capacity engine and the new light hybrid system, but still...despite the gen-4's great looks and apparent decent ride quality, if it has a lackluster engine in the (more affordable and thus most common) SA-G, it won't sell that well, similar to the gen-3 car, which never sold in anywhere near the numbers the gen-1 car did.

Offline dunhill1984

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2019, 09:13:35 PM »
I Think you forgeting most buyers want low co2 ouput and better fuel ecomomy from their engines now than before with roads being more congested and want better safety systems to avoid those low speed shunts, 0 to 62 times are a bit obsolete dont you think.


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Offline misar

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2019, 08:45:16 AM »
I found this discussion of Mazda 3 performance QI so I did a quick summary of 0-62 times across all the generations!
All figures (except Gen 4) from Honest John reviews for 5 door manual petrol hatchbacks.

Gen 1
1.6L  105ps  11.2s
2.0L  150ps  9.4s
Gen 2
1.6L  105ps  12.2s
2.0L  150ps  10.4s
Gen 3
1.5L  100ps  10.8s
2.0L  120ps  8.9s
Gen 4
2.0L  122ps  10.4s
2.0L  180ps  8.2s

I am not disbelieving Andy's impression of his Gen1 1.6L vs a Gen3 2.0L but I think this demonstrates that guessing how a model will drive based on small differences in Mazda's published figures is probably not very reliable.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 03:40:13 PM by misar »

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2019, 07:33:42 PM »
I jumped straight from a 1.6 gen1 57 plate to a 2.0 120bhp gen3 15 plate, I wouldn't say gen3 feels significantly faster though it is smoother, the six speed box may have something to do with it as may the fact I'm probably being a bit more gentle with my new toy. Worth noting I'm now getting around 48mpg as oppose to around 42mpg in gen1, and also saving a good bit on VED too.

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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2019, 07:48:43 PM »
I'd like to drive a gen 3 Sport Nav 120 to compare with my 165 Sport Nav to see if there really is a noticeable difference from 0-62. Official figures suggest 8.9 secs to 8.2 secs. I'm not someone with a heavy right foot on the pedal so wondering if it would be such a big deal if I swapped it out? I am considering the Skyactiv X engine in future if it turns out to be reliable though.

   
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Re: New mazda 3 on order
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2019, 07:48:43 PM »