Author Topic: I-Stop Query  (Read 439 times)

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Offline Mlfc77

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I-Stop Query
« on: August 24, 2019, 11:48:04 AM »
Hi, I have just bought a 2nd hand 2015 2.0 SE-L Nav with 16k. So I am trying to get used to istop. After moving from a 2007 Katano. My Istop has been working flawlessly over the summer. As I was driving more miles than normal. Now I’m back to work the Istop has not been operating over the last couple of days. When checking the maintenance screen it’s the battery that’s stoping it from working. So I assumed that it was just down to driving short trips. I just did a longer journey around 20 miles and the battery is still showing as the reason why istop is not ready. Is this normal. I’ve read other posts that state that istop is hit and miss. I checked the battery after leaving it overnight and it was showing as 12.47 volts and checking it when the engine is idling it was over 14 volts. Could there be an issue or am I just being paranoid.

Also with my paranoid head on there always seems to be moisture on the exhaust pipe. Again with short trips I expect it to be there, but again even after 10 miles there seems to be water sitting at the end of the tail pipe

Offline bart

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2019, 03:39:37 PM »
Hi, I'm pretty new to the start stop myself, but mine always says not ready if I have aircon on or front or rear demisters on, so worth checking if anything else is using the battery. I quite often stick rear screen on when approaching a red light as I don't quite trust it to start again when I need to move off  :D

Offline Tall333

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2019, 05:25:04 PM »
12.5 volts is a bit low.

Having air con on makes no difference to whether i-stop works on our 65 plate Mazda 3, nor our 17 plate Mazda CX-5.  I'm pretty sure having the heater set to screen stops it working tho.

Offline misar

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2019, 07:55:35 AM »
@bart
If you don't want to use iStop there is an on/off switch  :)
For info in 10 years I never had the iStop failing to restart as I pulled away. If it does that suggests a fault.

@Tall333
It depends on what the aircon is doing. If its going quietly on eco then iStop works normally, it the aircon is going full blast to cool the car it usually doesn't.

Offline Alfisto

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2019, 10:04:29 AM »
Apparently there are a huge number of conditions that will not allow iStop to work. There's a good thread somewhere on here. After messing with mine on a stop start journey through town I also found out that if you turn it off, it won't come back on until after the ignition has been switched off and back on again.

Offline Engineer Andy

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2019, 06:23:00 PM »
Apparently there are a huge number of conditions that will not allow iStop to work. There's a good thread somewhere on here. After messing with mine on a stop start journey through town I also found out that if you turn it off, it won't come back on until after the ignition has been switched off and back on again.

I thought that the i-Stop button was an on-off button, so you could turn it back on mid-journey.  The problem with the system is that (according to John Cadogan of YouTube fame) the system resets itself to default on every time you switch the car off and on again, meaning you have to always turn i-Stop off manually - you can't switch it off and it'll be that way until you turn it on manually with the switch.

One thing I'm not sure of is whether it uses an actual battery (separate to the main one) or some kind of capacitor, which may be the reason why it works more smoothly than rival systems, at least according to Honest John.  I never really ntoiced it when I test drove a new 3 and CX-3 a while ago in 2017.

Offline misar

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2019, 07:31:08 PM »
One thing I'm not sure of is whether it uses an actual battery (separate to the main one) or some kind of capacitor, which may be the reason why it works more smoothly than rival systems, at least according to Honest John.  I never really ntoiced it when I test drove a new 3 and CX-3 a while ago in 2017.

I don't know about Gen 3 but Gen 2 had a separate battery and the latest petrol cars (Gen 4?) are "mild hybrids" which uses an extra lithium battery that also takes care of iStop.

Incidentally (as you have been around a long time  :)) I was surprised to find little discussion of the new (2019) Mazda 3 on here. As I recall launch of the two previous generations stimulated long threads debating their pros and cons.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 07:32:54 PM by misar »

Offline StevenRB45

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2019, 08:13:15 PM »
Regard the gen 4 we've had some discussions but in the context of other threads. My annoyingly protracted car hunt for example!

Offline Ed-Led

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2019, 08:51:31 PM »
As far as i'm aware, both gen 2 and gen 3 cars can have the I-Stop switched off and then back on again without the need to switch the engine off to re-activate it. I know I have done this while in transit. My gen 2 had a separate battery for I-Stop but I don't think my gen 3 has (maybe I should open the bonnet for once to check!).   

 Digressing slightly, I have hardly seen any gen 4 cars so far...maybe two I think. I don't know what the sales figures are but they can't be very high. 
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Offline Engineer Andy

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2019, 02:01:34 PM »
I've seen (outside of my local dealership) one new gen-4 car in my home town (the dealer is 13 miles away) - the hatch version I saw looked very good indeed - the best hatch version they've come up with yet, looks-wise.

I know a lot of people are waiting until (sorry to bring the B word up, but it is relevant) Brexit happens and things settle down (hopefully) afterward before splashing the cash on a new car, including quite large price hiles, partly due to the weakness of the £Pound against foreign currencies whilst all the uncertainty of Brexit and the political scene prevails.

I am as well, but that includes me in-between careers at present so I'm not spending a lot on a new car when my 'old faithful' is still going along perfectly ok.  If both change for the better, I would certainly be back in the market within the next year or so for a replacement, especially if the £Pound strengthened and new car prices came down as a result.  I remember just two years ago me sourcing some brand new/ex-showroom gen-3 2L petrol cars (an SE-L Nav via brokers and a Sport Nav at my local dealership) for about £16k - £17k, with prices via brokers attracting a 20-22% discount.

The gen-4 car is more expensive by about £1k list price before discounts, which at present are limited in nature and a maximum (that I've come across) of only 12%.  The price of any car equipped with SA-X engine is rather expensive.  At least it's available in auto version for the new fastback, for the moment anyway, which is the one I would go for, probably for the SE-L Lux variant.  I'm going to wait at least 6 months (even if my personal circumstances changed for the better now), perhaps a bit longer, to make sure the new SA-X engine beds in without any issues, given it is a completely new engine design.

I may even consider getting a CX-30, depending on what combinations of engine, transmission and spec are available, as it is a htach with a bigger, more practical boot entry in comparison to the 3 in fastback form.  I found the CX-3 very nice to drive, but like the gen-3 Mazda3 in 2.0 SA-G format, not especially nippy.  The boot of that car was a bit on the small side as well, and the CX-30's is much bigger, around the size of the 3 in fastback form, which (styling-wise) is still my preferred car.

I'm not sure how the gen-4's i-Stop works, given the cars have a 'mild hybrid' system presumably with it's own battery and regenerative brakes, in order to run all the electrical systems.  I wouldn't have thought that the cars would have yet another battery (a third) just for the i-Stop, hence why I thought it might be something like what I heard the gen-3 used.  Are you sure misar about this lithium battery being used for both the electrics and i-Stop?  I may have just missed that second usage when reading up on the blurb.

Offline misar

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2019, 06:51:16 PM »
I'm not sure how the gen-4's i-Stop works, given the cars have a 'mild hybrid' system presumably with it's own battery and regenerative brakes, in order to run all the electrical systems.  I wouldn't have thought that the cars would have yet another battery (a third) just for the i-Stop, hence why I thought it might be something like what I heard the gen-3 used.  Are you sure misar about this lithium battery being used for both the electrics and i-Stop?  I may have just missed that second usage when reading up on the blurb.

In the Mazda 3 manual, for petrol cars w/o M Hybrid but with iStop or diesel cars with iStop the main battery spec is a special "Q-85 or S-95 designed for i-stop system". The M Hybrid cars with iStop use the same conventional "12V-60Ah/20HR or 12V-65Ah/20HR" main battery as petrol cars w/o M Hybrid and w/o iStop.

I made the assumption that if the M Hybrid cars are not using the lithium battery they would also require a Q-85 battery because it seemed unlikely that Mazda would fit yet another permutation of the iStop system in the M Hybrid cars. However, you may be correct!

PS
Google found this review which adds a little more information about the M Hybrid:
https://www.completecar.ie/car-reviews/article/Mazda/3/3_2.0_SkyActiv-G_M-Hybrid_(2019)/1466/8909/2019-Mazda-3-2.0-SkyActiv-G-M-Hybrid-(2019)-review.html

The hybrid system isn't as obvious as that deployed by Toyota. While there is an electric motor, it's not a separate motor that can drive the car under pure electric power. Rather, it's an integrated starter generator (ISG), attached directly to the engine, which can feed its 6kW of energy into the powertrain when needed. That can be either to boost acceleration a little, or simply to cover torque gaps in the power delivery when you're changing gear, which makes the shift feel that much smoother. Or it can, drawing power from its little lithium-ion battery mounted under the back seat, run the car's advanced stop-start system and the engine's cylinder shut-down system to help save fuel.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 07:23:08 PM by misar »

Offline Engineer Andy

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2019, 04:43:58 PM »
I'm not sure how the gen-4's i-Stop works, given the cars have a 'mild hybrid' system presumably with it's own battery and regenerative brakes, in order to run all the electrical systems.  I wouldn't have thought that the cars would have yet another battery (a third) just for the i-Stop, hence why I thought it might be something like what I heard the gen-3 used.  Are you sure misar about this lithium battery being used for both the electrics and i-Stop?  I may have just missed that second usage when reading up on the blurb.

In the Mazda 3 manual, for petrol cars w/o M Hybrid but with iStop or diesel cars with iStop the main battery spec is a special "Q-85 or S-95 designed for i-stop system". The M Hybrid cars with iStop use the same conventional "12V-60Ah/20HR or 12V-65Ah/20HR" main battery as petrol cars w/o M Hybrid and w/o iStop.

I made the assumption that if the M Hybrid cars are not using the lithium battery they would also require a Q-85 battery because it seemed unlikely that Mazda would fit yet another permutation of the iStop system in the M Hybrid cars. However, you may be correct!

PS
Google found this review which adds a little more information about the M Hybrid:
https://www.completecar.ie/car-reviews/article/Mazda/3/3_2.0_SkyActiv-G_M-Hybrid_(2019)/1466/8909/2019-Mazda-3-2.0-SkyActiv-G-M-Hybrid-(2019)-review.html

The hybrid system isn't as obvious as that deployed by Toyota. While there is an electric motor, it's not a separate motor that can drive the car under pure electric power. Rather, it's an integrated starter generator (ISG), attached directly to the engine, which can feed its 6kW of energy into the powertrain when needed. That can be either to boost acceleration a little, or simply to cover torque gaps in the power delivery when you're changing gear, which makes the shift feel that much smoother. Or it can, drawing power from its little lithium-ion battery mounted under the back seat, run the car's advanced stop-start system and the engine's cylinder shut-down system to help save fuel.

Thanks!  I've never been a fan of stop-start systems in general as many are rough and no different to me turning the car off myself in terms of noise/vibration.  The reviews of the gen-3 car seemed to indicate a much more smooth re-start where it was barely noticeable, I remember reading somewhere that it used some kind of capacitor instead of a battery, as they work more quickly and have been used extensively in the electronics industry for decades to smooth out electric power deliver.  Hopefully whatever new system the gen-4 car has will improve on that, even if it uses a 'more conventional' battery-type system, especially if they are partnering with Toyota, who are pass-masters at hybrid cars.

What I did find unusual was that in some of the official blurb, the gen-4 car's mpg and emissions were essentially identical to the gen-3 car when equipped with the SA-G engines, the former with a hybrid system, the latter without.  Odd that, especially as the performance figures (0-60 times) are actually some way lower for the newer car.

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Re: I-Stop Query
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2019, 04:43:58 PM »