Author Topic: Wheel rim/tyre seal  (Read 745 times)

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Offline the ink monitor

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Wheel rim/tyre seal
« on: February 05, 2019, 02:52:04 PM »
Tyres were getting, well, tired – 25,000 original ones that were showing signs of “crazing” on the walls AND had a leak in one of them…..hint, hint.

So, had four new tyres fitted but still had the same rear nearside one going down slowly. Went back to Kwik Fit and they showed me that in two places on the inner rim the seal was now lost between the tyre and the rim, which APPARENTLY (!) was quite a common problem with modern alloys after they have aged a bit. This causes the coating (?) on the wheel to crumble/blister/breakdown/whatever and the tyre rim can no longer seal well to the wheel.

Is this a common problem as I’ve never had it before? KF manager said I would have to get the wheel cleaned and resprayed professionally, and after a bit of Googling I have found that there are firms such as Wicked Wheels who specialise in this type of work, so clearly it must be big problem if people are making a living out of it – Yes/No?

Has anyone any experience of this and had to have their wheels serviced like this because of old faulty seal twixt tyre and wheel?

Any comments would be most appreciated.

Offline bobmax

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Re: Wheel rim/tyre seal
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 03:29:39 PM »
This happened on the wife's Astra, they were losing pressure, so they were taken off cleaned with a wire brush and charged her 70 od quid the 4  ::)
I went back to question it, and they said it's a common thing.
What about putting nitrogen into them, anyone know if it's better than just air?
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Offline Willpower

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Re: Wheel rim/tyre seal
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 04:30:45 PM »
This is a common fault and is not restricted to Mazda.   BMW,Mercedes, Kia and Audi have all had problems with Alloy wheels. And strangely enough only in UK
There are many postings on this forum covering Alloy Wheel corrosion.  Perhaps a look through some of these previous messages will help you to come to terms with the problem :)

And as far as using Nitrogen is concerned. It has been tried and had negligible effect.  Sorry !  :)    Once again there are previous postings covering this.
 

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Re: Wheel rim/tyre seal
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 11:50:21 PM »
This happened on the wife's Astra, they were losing pressure, so they were taken off cleaned with a wire brush and charged her 70 od quid the 4  ::)
I went back to question it, and they said it's a common thing.
What about putting nitrogen into them, anyone know if it's better than just air?

Thank you.

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Re: Wheel rim/tyre seal
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2019, 11:54:00 PM »

And as far as using Nitrogen is concerned. It has been tried and had negligible effect.  Sorry !  :)    Once again there are previous postings covering this.

I did search! (Twice - honest guv  ;)) Using "Wheel rim/tyre seal" and nothing came up anywhere near.  :(

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Re: Wheel rim/tyre seal
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 12:21:42 AM »
Steven RB45
The "rubber" compounds used have had all sorts of magic ingredients, including silicones (silica probably wouldn't be a good idea) for many years. Tyre manufacturers are generally fairly secretive about their compounds and processes. When I worked for Michelin, the standing joke was that there were no ground level windows so the only way to spy on the place was from a low flying aircraft. Anybody caught taking any material off the plant was subject to instant dismissal, and that applied right down to a small piece of wire, such was the secrecy. They obviously hadn't thought that somebody might cut a tyre open.

Extra weight and power, unless applied stupidly, shouldn't be a factor. Wider tyres reduce the contact pressure, frictional loads shouldn't be drastically increased, if at all.
Are you sure your tread readings are accurate? New tread depth is generally 8mm.


Engineer Andy
Sadly, I didn't get anything like that sort of mileage out of my ER30s on my Gen1, nor from the Michelin Pilot Sports I replaced them with, so I'm beginning to wonder if road surface texture, and maybe even climatic conditions, could have an impact.

You suffered the same wheel corrosion/leaking tyre problem as I had on my Gen1. This seems to be relatively common and coupled with low/ultra low profile tyres which aren't kept up to pressure, carcase damage and increased wear is inevitable. I have a neighbour with an Audi A4 estate on ultra low profile (rubber band) tyres. At times, the car looks like it's sittting on the wheels.

The pimple speed humps haven't had any effect on my cars - yet. Whether it's because I take them gently, or possibly the profile of the ones I regularly meet, I don't know. I know of someone who hit the same bumps regularly and he swore blind they wrecked his suspension, wheel alignment..... in fact everything up to and including his furry dice.


Plenty on Nitrogen filling:   Here is one thread that turned into a bit of fun
http://www.mazda3forums.co.uk/index.php?topic=2425.15

As with all searches it is much better if you use the search function field on the HOME page. For some reason it brings up more results. :)  Happy reading.
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Re: Wheel rim/tyre seal
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 03:27:49 PM »


As with all searches it is much better if you use the search function field on the HOME page. For some reason it brings up more results. :)  Happy reading.
[/quote]

And there was me trying to be clever and helpful.........or both. Can't win - story of my life.   :o

Offline Engineer Andy

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Re: Wheel rim/tyre seal
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 05:39:52 PM »
Tyres were getting, well, tired – 25,000 original ones that were showing signs of “crazing” on the walls AND had a leak in one of them…..hint, hint.

So, had four new tyres fitted but still had the same rear nearside one going down slowly. Went back to Kwik Fit and they showed me that in two places on the inner rim the seal was now lost between the tyre and the rim, which APPARENTLY (!) was quite a common problem with modern alloys after they have aged a bit. This causes the coating (?) on the wheel to crumble/blister/breakdown/whatever and the tyre rim can no longer seal well to the wheel.

Is this a common problem as I’ve never had it before? KF manager said I would have to get the wheel cleaned and resprayed professionally, and after a bit of Googling I have found that there are firms such as Wicked Wheels who specialise in this type of work, so clearly it must be big problem if people are making a living out of it – Yes/No?

Has anyone any experience of this and had to have their wheels serviced like this because of old faulty seal twixt tyre and wheel?

Any comments would be most appreciated.

This happened to my gen-1 car when I had the OEM tyres replaced in 2012 (6yo).  One tyre kept going down, even after I took the car back to the fitters who charged me (they wouldn't do it FOC) another £9 - £10 to do so with 'extra' tyre sealant.  It didn't work, and they gave they same answer yours did - old alloy wheels corroding, yadda, yadda, yadda.  I took it to my main dealer who did a better job and the seal held until about 18 months ago, when that tyre started deflating slowly at first, then more quickly as time went on.  The other three started as well.

My tyres were nearly 6yo (still 4-5mm of tread left), so I decided, rather than to cross my fingers and have the alloys repaired (no guarantees that would work), I decided to downsize my wheels from 16in to 15in (still Mazda OEM type, just the smaller diameter) and change the tyres for fresh rubber (going from 205/55 R16V to 195/65 R15H [allowed]).  The cost of changing (downsizing, but same rolling tyre diameter) all the wheels and tyres was barely any more than the cost of new 16in tyres to be fitted, let alone with the alloy refurb cost added in (guessed at about £50 each based on a short web search).  Maybe not an option on a gen-3 car though, but definetly for a gen-1 and 2 car, especially non-Sport/2.0 (non SA-G version) models with standard brakes.

Got it all done at my local main dealer, who, unlike tyre fitters, didn't charge to fit the wheels AND the tyres, just the tyres.  For larger and more expensive alloys, a refurb may be a better bet if the work can be guaranteed for a reasonable amount of time, as direct replacement alloys for sizes above 16in aren't cheap.  The reason why I downsized was because Mazda were charging £155 each for the replacement 16in alloys and only £87 for the 15in version; similarly the 15in Michelin CC+ tyres I got were only about £51 each (not incl. fitting @ £10 each) as opposed to the 16in ones which were about £20 each more expensive.

As the existing tyres were 6yo, I decided, even though they still had a decent amount of tread and worked fine otherwise, they could go hard like the OEM set (different make/model) given their age, so would have to replace the tyres anyway in the next year or two at most.

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Re: Wheel rim/tyre seal
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 09:26:14 AM »
Tyres were getting, well, tired – 25,000 original ones that were showing signs of “crazing” on the walls AND had a leak in one of them…..hint, hint.

So, had four new tyres fitted but still had the same rear nearside one going down slowly. Went back to Kwik Fit and they showed me that in two places on the inner rim the seal was now lost between the tyre and the rim, which APPARENTLY (!) was quite a common problem with modern alloys after they have aged a bit. This causes the coating (?) on the wheel to crumble/blister/breakdown/whatever and the tyre rim can no longer seal well to the wheel.

Is this a common problem as I’ve never had it before? KF manager said I would have to get the wheel cleaned and resprayed professionally, and after a bit of Googling I have found that there are firms such as Wicked Wheels who specialise in this type of work, so clearly it must be big problem if people are making a living out of it – Yes/No?

Has anyone any experience of this and had to have their wheels serviced like this because of old faulty seal twixt tyre and wheel?

Any comments would be most appreciated.

This happened to my gen-1 car when I had the OEM tyres replaced in 2012 (6yo).  One tyre kept going down, even after I took the car back to the fitters who charged me (they wouldn't do it FOC) another £9 - £10 to do so with 'extra' tyre sealant.  It didn't work, and they gave they same answer yours did - old alloy wheels corroding, yadda, yadda, yadda.  I took it to my main dealer who did a better job and the seal held until about 18 months ago, when that tyre started deflating slowly at first, then more quickly as time went on.  The other three started as well.

My tyres were nearly 6yo (still 4-5mm of tread left), so I decided, rather than to cross my fingers and have the alloys repaired (no guarantees that would work), I decided to downsize my wheels from 16in to 15in (still Mazda OEM type, just the smaller diameter) and change the tyres for fresh rubber (going from 205/55 R16V to 195/65 R15H [allowed]).  The cost of changing (downsizing, but same rolling tyre diameter) all the wheels and tyres was barely any more than the cost of new 16in tyres to be fitted, let alone with the alloy refurb cost added in (guessed at about £50 each based on a short web search).  Maybe not an option on a gen-3 car though, but definetly for a gen-1 and 2 car, especially non-Sport/2.0 (non SA-G version) models with standard brakes.

Got it all done at my local main dealer, who, unlike tyre fitters, didn't charge to fit the wheels AND the tyres, just the tyres.  For larger and more expensive alloys, a refurb may be a better bet if the work can be guaranteed for a reasonable amount of time, as direct replacement alloys for sizes above 16in aren't cheap.  The reason why I downsized was because Mazda were charging £155 each for the replacement 16in alloys and only £87 for the 15in version; similarly the 15in Michelin CC+ tyres I got were only about £51 each (not incl. fitting @ £10 each) as opposed to the 16in ones which were about £20 each more expensive.

As the existing tyres were 6yo, I decided, even though they still had a decent amount of tread and worked fine otherwise, they could go hard like the OEM set (different make/model) given their age, so would have to replace the tyres anyway in the next year or two at most.

Wow, thanks for that, and I thought mine was a big problem - I feel better now.... ;D

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Re: Wheel rim/tyre seal
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 09:26:14 AM »