Author Topic: what tyres?  (Read 26035 times)

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Offline StevenRB45

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2019, 07:34:53 PM »
Unfortunately I'm across the valley from Consett (3rd highest market town in the UK wayhey!) a place famous for snow when everyone else has rain.

I'm about 100 odd feet lower on the other valley top but the weather is pretty similar. In the 2010 we had snow on the ground from mid December to February and it was below minus 5 for a full week in that time.

Not had a really bad one since but I don't remember a year without at least a week.

Just had my first trip on them at 3 degrees with plenty of standing water, not snow and ice but felt nice and secure. Even just pulling out of steep junctions in cold & wet might start the front end scrabbling and set the tcs off on the old ones. Handling feels a little less pointy but was to be expected on softer rubber, NVH is improved on the flipside with less roar (they are officially 1 DB quieter than my old ones).
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 10:07:57 PM by StevenRB45 »

Offline red_imps_2003

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2019, 11:33:31 AM »
The weather up this way is truly bizarre. I think it was the same event in 2010 you are referring to that I experienced something I will never forget. I drove to the Tesco in Rowlands Gill to get a couple of pints of milk and a loaf of bread one evening and on the return leg the road was damp at the bottom of Busty Bank (where the entrance to Gibside is) but by the time I reached the fork near the top of the hill there was so much snow on the road that the car ahead of me (who was driving far too slowly and lost all momentum) got stuck in it, as did I as I had to pull up behind him. We only got going again because a Good Samaritan gave us a push to get going again. I've never known anything like it!

Then a couple of years back I set of with my family from Winlaton to Broom House Farm one Sunday and, despite the snow only being a powdery dusting in Winlaton when we left, we had to turn around at Harelaw because the snow was too deep there and the road becoming slippery.

So I was stood there trying to work out why the cricket ball was getting larger and larger...and then it hit me.

Offline speedy mazda

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2019, 10:50:47 PM »
Has anyone bothered with winter tyres😀 I’ve got a spare set of alloys and was looking at reviews on the Nexen Winguard sport 2 winter tyres. They are just over 60 notes each plus fitting

Offline Engineer Andy

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2019, 11:45:13 AM »
Has anyone bothered with winter tyres😀 I’ve got a spare set of alloys and was looking at reviews on the Nexen Winguard sport 2 winter tyres. They are just over 60 notes each plus fitting

Aren't Nexen a budget brand though?  Tyre Reviews just did a comparative test between a budget brand and a top brand (Nokkian) for winter tyres for both a standard car and tyre combo (Golf with 205/55 R16) and a marger car (a Volvo) with wider, lower profile tyres with larger rims.  Needless to say, the budget one didn't do that well and is likely to wear far more quickly, as they mostly get the grip they do have at the expense of tyre life by softening the compound.

To that end, you may find that you may be able to get some decent deals on winter tyres at present due to higher demand.  It really depends on where you live and how often you get snow/ice as well as how bad that gets, as to whether it's worth buying a set of winter tyres and changing them back and forth with a summer set twice a year.

Where I am in the SE/East Anglia (NE Hertfordshire), it's relatively flat terrain and we don't generally get that much snow on average (and it's not that heavy when it comes), so all-season tyres (and more summer-biased ones at that) are more suited to the conditions, whereas the further North you go and/or in the more hilly/remote areas, the more winter-biased versions and eventually having specific winter tyres may well be worthwhile to keep you mobile.

If you do get winter tyres (and all season ones), just check that they are allowable via the minimum ratings for the car (load and especially speed) and your insurer is onboard (they shouldn't charge you extra).

Offline StevenRB45

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2019, 05:05:37 PM »
To that end, you may find that you may be able to get some decent deals on winter tyres at present due to higher demand.

Think that ship sailed with the first cold weather.

I ordered mine from black circles,  at the time they were 108 quid minus 40 quid if you bought 4. So less than 400 for the set.

Currently the price is 136 per tyre, the 40 quid offer is still on but that's still a rise of 120 quid in a week if you use the offer for a set of 4.

Offline speedy mazda

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2019, 09:13:44 PM »
Did you buy winter tyres then Steven ?.hi Andy I found a good review here https://alltyretests.com/nexen-winguard-sport-2-test-review/.I thought if I can get a good set of winter tyres cheap maybe worthwhile .

Offline speedy mazda

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2019, 09:31:07 PM »

Offline StevenRB45

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2019, 09:38:38 PM »
Did you buy winter tyres then Steven ?.hi Andy I found a good review here https://alltyretests.com/nexen-winguard-sport-2-test-review/.I thought if I can get a good set of winter tyres cheap maybe worthwhile .

I bought a winter biased all-season tyre (Goodyear Vector 4 season gen 2s) as I didn't fancy swapping wheels and tyres and didn't have a spare set of wheels.

Some reviews https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/92866/goodyear-vector-4seasons-gen-2

https://youtu.be/pe-gkTCOs7E


Offline StevenRB45

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2020, 01:49:27 PM »
Have to say after a winter on the Goodyears don't think I'll be buying summers again.

Not that we've had snow to speak of this year, I had to do a whole 50 yards on an uncleared street.

However what was absolutely noticeable for me was the difference in the stability of the performance regardless of weather and temperature. Old summer tyres once you'd got below about 4 degrees on a damp day it felt a bit like it was on tip toes, not dangerous you just felt the need to go easier on brakes and acceleration and steering as the limits were lower. It now just feels planted regardless of what the weather is doing outside.

I'm sure if it was a hot hatch then I'd notice a drop in responsiveness, and the turn in isn't pin sharp so not the best track day tyre. Also fuel economy seems to have taken a moderate knock.

But in general for a tyre that you can just put on and commute year round without drama it's an excellent choice. That and they seem to work ok on wet/grass mud which will probably come in handy in summer when you're out and about and make shift parking gets a dousing.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 07:42:56 PM by StevenRB45 »

Offline Engineer Andy

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2020, 07:08:47 PM »
I noticed a similar effect when I changed from (otherwise decent) Dunlop summer tyres to Michelin Cross Climates (although with a minimal mpg penalty) a couple of years ago.  My neck of the woods in Hertfordshire doesn't get much in the way of snow anyway, so the CC+ seemed a bit fit than the other all-seasons available at the time, which were more suited to wintery conditions but not as good at other times of the year.

As you say, our cars aren't exactly 'sporty' in terms of performance, thus we barely see any reduction in traction and handling outside of the winter.  I was disappointed that we only got a smattering of the white stuff this year (I suppose there's still time) a few weeks ago which lasted all of two hours before melting - I still haven't been able to test their ability on snow.

Very little in the way of wear either and comfortable/quiet.  Glad I got them and I won't be going back to summers on this car at least, and whatever I replace it with will likely have its OEM tyres replaced with similar A/S tyres unless I buy a proper sporty car (unlikely) - I wouldn't call the SA-X Mazda 3 'properly sporty'.  I now prefer a comfortable ride over outright performance (bad back).

Offline StevenRB45

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2020, 10:05:14 PM »
I did look at CC+ tyres but the lack of siping that helps their summer performance does hamper them compared to the Goodyear in snow and ice conditions.

Given where I live I was always going to want good cold weather performance, one of the good things about them is not having to avoid the fell road on cold mornings and take a more congested but flatter route. It's road between 2 fields about 700ft above sea level filled with undulations some of which fill up with water..also water runs over it between the fields. Means on cold, dark mornings you can be crossing bars of ice..or have 2 wheels on ice, or suddenly find a deep puddle or river over the road, lots of fun.

I feel as though I'm only giving away maybe 10% of summer dry performance/handling but it's a 10% I'd not use in normal circumstances. Wet weather performance is up there with summer tyres if not better at temperatures we see regularly. The only concern I have is perhaps lengthening dry weather stopping distance in an emergency but I still have full size 205s/50 17s so unlike smaller dedicated winters the contact patches are still a reasonable size.

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2020, 06:26:11 PM »
Yeah - it's always a bit of a compromise unless you have the funds and storage for the summer/winter tyre arrangement.  I'm just glad we now have the option of essentially every type of tyre covering the entire UK's weather/temperature range, yours better for the northern/more exposed half of the UK, mine and the Bridgestone equivalent for the southern half, and even more winter-biased ones available too for the really exposed areas to the North.

Quite often, the A/S tyres do better in the wet than summer tyres (yours scored higly in that regard in tests if I recall), at the expense of dry grip and stopping distance in the summer. The lower mpg is often due to them being of a softer compound, but this is an obvious safety benefit in colder months due to better traction and grip.  I think yours also scored a bit better than mine on ride comfort and noise, but mine is an improvement on the previous (summer) set, which were actually fine on that front.  It was the Bridgestone ER30 OEMs that were horrible (really noisy only after 6 months usage) and rightly get poor ratings by users on the Tyre Reviews website.

The other benefits I got from changing was that the CC+ are supposedly long-lasting (also keeping more of their performance for longer when worn) and (not related to my choice of tyres) me downsizing from 205/55 R16 to 195/65 R15, meaning the new ones are less susceptible to aquaplaining and will get better traction in snow because they are skinnier tyres. I think my mpg offset was likely lower than yours mainly because my current tyres are skinnier (less rolling resistance due to less rubber on the road), at the expense of some grip.  Given the tyres are at least one, maybe two generations ahead of the ones I replaced, it probably makes little difference.

I think yours are normally cheaper than my CC+s, especially in the larger sizes from 16in and up.  I suspect once the longevity of the tyres is factored in, there's not much in it from a £ per mile perspective.

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2020, 11:57:15 PM »
In terms of treadwear the Vector 4 seasons are the same rating as an Eagle F1  ???

But given I threw the old tyres away not due to treadwear but age cracking I'm not hugely concerned in that department. Days of me driving it like I stole it have passed, and the old tyres had 4.5 mm on the worst tyre after 28k miles. If you read the reviews of the EfficientGrip Performance that I had on people complain about burning them up in less than 10k so they lasted nearly 3 times that on the 3. Not having a heavy diesel mill up the front with a big chunk of torque really helps the life of the tyre.

Fuel economy wise I'm not concerned, the fact is I went from what is one of the lowest rolling resistance none eco tyres (A rated for economy) to a C rated tyre on a run it's still capable of 40mpg + but hard to get an actual feel for it in the middle of winter and my work roster has changed so I commute at rush hour 4 days a week which is kicking the fuel economy
anyway and did before I switched the tyres. It must be worse but my feeling is I'd be surprised if they cost more than 1 mpg

The best thing about other than the stability is the ride quality and NVH on them though, the 3 almost feels quiet and composed. It isn't but that's nothing to do with the tyres and everything to do with the car itself. It's much better on poor surfaces regards road roar and smoothes sharp edges more nicely. They'll never sort out the slightly firm damping at low speeds that makes it jiggle about but quieter was definitely welcome.

The Vectors and the CC+ are or were quite similar in price when I picked them up. I have no doubt having used Michelin in the past they'll last forever, I just wanted a different style of tyre.

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2020, 02:19:19 PM »
The GYs tend to be cheaper in terms of their base price, whereas the Michelins tend to have occasional offers (which I took advantage of) to reduce the price.  there was not much differnce in the smaller sizes, but definitely for the larger/less common ones.  If I'd stayed with 16in wheels, the GYs would've been in consideration, especially as they are slightly better again than the CC+ for comfort.

I haven't seen anything to refute it yet, but I had heard that the newest Michelin tyres are now designed to physically last (i.e. not go hard/brittle) for 10 years instead of 6-7, which is handy for me as I normally do low annual mileages and the previous two sets I changed at 6yo were only half worn.

Both my current CC+s and the previous summer tyres (Dunlop SP Sport Fastresponse) are both B rated for wet grip and C for mpg.  I would say now that the newer set have done about 5-7k miles, they aren't much different in mpg to the Dunlops.  TBH, a drop of 5% is still only 2mpg, and most tyres improve in mpg as they age as they get harder. 1mpg lower is nothing really and is well within the margin of the variance in journey patterns and weather.

Like yours, I think mine and most newer generation A/S tyres are now very good, matching the previous generation summer tyres in most respects and significantly outperforming them in cold and wintry weather, as well as giving a smoother ride.  As you say, most people don't drive like they're being chase by the Police, and thus the full potential of the summer tyre is rarely, if ever, realised.  I'd rather have the improved comfort and significantly improved ability to get about with a much greater degree of safety in winter.

It's a shame that new cars (apart from perhaps the really sporty ones) don't come shod with all-season tyres as standard, or at least have the option to choose them at either no or little extra cost, especially as it appears that Mazda's choice of OEM tyres doesn't go down well with owners - many getting poor reviews as I mentioned.

Offline StevenRB45

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2020, 08:21:16 PM »
One of the things I find odd is that given the prevalence of SUV style cars in the modern world most of them have summer tyres and 2 wheel drive. At least if you fitted all seasons you wouldn't have the ignominy of slithering to a halt on a slight icy slope in your "4x4" they'd also be better off road...or on grass as is the most likely use.

A friend of mine recently took delivery of a new CX-5 sport nav after seeing how little bother my 3 gave me over several years (his last car a BMW never worked right).

It arrived on the same Yokohama Blu-earth tyres as the normal 3 runs on.

Given you don't buy a suv like that to drive hard you'd imagine the perfect tyre would be all season but the only manufacturer I know of to offer it as an option on this style of car are Peugeot Citroen...but they are one of the few manufacturers to still offer a spare wheel so they seem to consider real world considerations a bit more.

If anything the 4wd is unnecessary with the correct tyres:
https://youtu.be/atayHQYqA3g
« Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 08:48:50 AM by StevenRB45 »

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Re: what tyres?
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2020, 08:21:16 PM »