Author Topic: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?  (Read 6983 times)

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Offline Angry Kittens

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2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« on: January 30, 2017, 12:25:00 AM »
Hi all.

First off I've been lurking around this forum and a great many others and have not yet found a definitive answer to this, so please forgive me if this has been answered before. I'm in the market for a new(ish) hatchback, upgrading from an 04' plate Peugot diesel.

Long story short I've set my sites on a 14' plate Mazda 3 2.2 Diesel, around 12k miles on the clock, still ~ 9 months left on the warranty. The place I found it was Fords of Winsford, the price seems reasonable (£12.5k), it's nice and tidy inside etc. My first alarm bells rang when I asked to take it for a test drive, I can't as it has to go back to the dealer because they have identified a smoke issue with it. Apparently the one and only previous owner had both the first and second service done at the same time at 12k miles?! Are smoke issues common or have any likely causes?

I'm still waiting to hear back about the outcome from that, but in the meantime I had a quick Google and have found no end of posts regarding the short comings of the 2.2 engine in particular, DPF is the obvious elephant, but also stretching timing belts and fuel seepage into the oil.

I understand the DPF issues and fuel seepage are related, I have a decent commute of around 23 miles each way, so I should be getting up to temperature fairly often, I do around 13k miles a year. Am I likely to see issues with the 2014 model?

I also read the excess fuel injection greatly decreases the economy, for obvious reasons; so I was also considering having the DPF bored out / gutted and the engine remapped to remove the excess fuel injection and get a bit more out of it once the warranty is up. I found mention in the sub forum of this having an adverse effect on the turbo, but have not seen that said anywhere else. Are there any downsides to having this procedure done?

Appreciate any answers and advice you can give me!

Offline Willpower

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2017, 10:18:27 AM »
I have moved your post into the appropriate section for your questions.  Unless you have already done so, then I suggest that you have a good read through the postings in this section. There are many postings that will give you a lot more insight into the problems associated with Diesel engines and DPF's
You will also find plenty of members experiences with Smoke (White & Blue)  De-cats, EGR's and other difficulties.

Reading through these will prepare you better for the penalties/benefits of owning a Mazda diesel.

Happy reading :)
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Offline Angry Kittens

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2017, 10:47:19 AM »
Hi Will, thanks for the reply, I have read all the stickies and a lot of user posts, most seem to point to earlier models but I wasn't 100% reassured.

Seems to be no end of problems, but I guess not many people who drive hassle free bother to come to forums to tell people!

Cheers

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 11:30:01 AM »
There are two ways of looking at that.
As you say, most people who are happy and have no problems. As a forum we would love to hear of more happy and positive experiences with Diesel engines. But when it's running good, people don't see the benefits of posting. It is an unfortunate fact that most people will only come to a forum when they have a problem. So that means that postings about problems are more prominent. 

It could also mean that many members have visited the forum, read and taken heed of the solutions offered and deal with the vagaries of the engines appropriately.

It is obvious that there are more difficulties associated with Diesel engines as opposed to their Petrol cousins. But Diesel can still offer a good deal if you meet the best performance and best practices that these engines need.

Good luck with your decision.
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Offline StevenRB45

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 02:22:10 PM »
Not much to add to what has been previously said, though for the car you are currently looking at I would want to know a few things before considering it. 1st what was causing the smoke issue and how they have rectified it and second if they say both services were done on the same day at 12k does that mean it had no oil changes for 2 years (a big no no on any timing chain car) or that it had a service done last year and has stood since? Which again isn't brilliant as cars tend to decay if left standing for long periods.

Offline cwilliams255

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2017, 12:05:56 PM »
Never had any real issues with my 2.2D. Its 09 plate and done 120k. It has an oil change every six months since around 85k to help mitigate the DPF issue you have mentioned; where if it fails to complete a regen it dumps the diesel into the sump and dilutes the oil. My daily commute is 10 miles (for the last 5 years) and never had DPF light illuminate etc, garage always do a forced regen when in for a service and their advice was to leave DPF as is unless it actually causes a problem. Whilst it generally stay below 2000 rpm it does get a few opportunities to be driven 'enthusiastically' and my garage definitely believe this helps. When I bought the car it had 4k on it so all its service history has been with me so I know its been looked after.

You will find DPF issues mentioned for pretty much every diesel engine you can google

Hope this helps

Offline speedy mazda

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2019, 12:26:42 PM »
Hi all does anyone know if the Mazda 2.2 Diesel engine was changed in 2017  and did they sort out the dpf issues some people suffered on the earlier models.

Offline StevenRB45

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2019, 06:44:36 PM »
Well I'm on Mazda 3 facebook group and this week has brought two people with issues regards failed regens causing rising oil levels on gen 3s. Although both are pre 2017 cars.

Does rather seem its business as usual in in diesel land. Also the recent intake shutter recall apparently makes them regen nearly twice as often.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 06:47:50 PM by StevenRB45 »

Offline speedy mazda

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 05:24:52 PM »
I was just curious as there’s a lot of cheap diesel mazdas about for sale.A friend had a Mazda 6 with the 2.2 Diesel engine and loved the torque from the engine and never had a single problem.My other half has a Mini Countryman with the 2 litre bmw turbo Diesel engine in it so far no problems,does drink bit of oil now though.Is it from 2018 the Mazda Diesel engine has an adblue tank?.

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2019, 02:08:22 PM »
I was just curious as there’s a lot of cheap diesel mazdas about for sale.A friend had a Mazda 6 with the 2.2 Diesel engine and loved the torque from the engine and never had a single problem.My other half has a Mini Countryman with the 2 litre bmw turbo Diesel engine in it so far no problems,does drink bit of oil now though.Is it from 2018 the Mazda Diesel engine has an adblue tank?.

Despite the 2.2TD passing the latest emissions tests, and Mazda bringing out an all-new 1.8TD, Mazda dropped the former from the gen-4 Mazda3 range and Mazda3s based on the latter were dropped from sale all of 3-4 months after appearing on the UK market; they currently are only sold in the CX-3 where it replaced the 1.5TD (no 2.TD option).

The 2.2TD is still in the CX-5 and 6, but I suspect it will be phased out over the coming years, not just because major cities will start banning diesels (starting with older ones), but because many people wrongly bought a diesel-engined car when a petrol should've been the one to go for, due to their usage pattern.

Again, if you do a decent amount of mileage per year and the majority on faster flowing roads, then diesels, including the 2.2TD, are fine - they are being used for the type of driving they were designed for.  The problem often comes when buying second hand - you rarely know what the usage patterns were for previous owners - high or low total mileage means very little if you don't know the context - i.e. the former could be lots of stop-start slow speed city use as a taxi (which may or may not be ok), the latter could be (like my usage pattern) made up of weekly or bi-weekly longer trips where the car gets thoroughly warmed up and in the case of a diesel, would more likely passively regen its DPF or at least have the time to do an active regen whilst on the go.

That's why I'd always be wary buying a used DPF-equipped diesel-engined car, even an ex-demo, because they often do short journeys, including being moved just a few yards around the dealership for various reasons.

I too have noticed A LOT of diesels and Sport-spec models ending up as nearly new 6mo - 2yo on dealership forecourts - some are probably ex-hire cars, but I have my suspicions that many are unloved cars from people who made the wrong choice on engine (see above) and/or trim level (e.g. Sport spec = large wheels/wide low profile tyres = hard ride + regular tyre/wheel repairs/repacements necessary at great expense).  On the tyres, my local dealer often (when I'm in their getting mine serviced) quotes £150 for the replacement of an 18in tyre compared to about half as much for 16in tyres (both above what you'd pay at a n indie or fast fitter, but its the difference).

I've also heard a good few customers complain about the 2.2TD's issues and having to come in for forced regens, and I'd put good money on them being the type of owner who mainly does shorter trip and in slow speed urban areas in heavy traffic.  I'm sure sales staff don't exactly discourage people to buy diesels (until recently perhaps) if its for that sort of work, but customers just don't do their homework.  Increased mpg is more than offset by serious engine problems that are inherrant to their design and will keep coming back if they are used in that way.

The problem comes for people with caravans who normally use their car for the above urban work and take the caravan out on holiday a reasonable times a year and thus need a diesel-powered car for the high torque capacity - too expensive (cost over a year) to have a smaller petrol-engined car for day-to-day use and hire a diesel for the towing trips.  I think this is why some people still love their old non-DPF equipped diesel cars, like those with the older 1.9 VAG diesel, which had a decent amount of torque and was dependable.

Offline speedy mazda

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2019, 07:25:47 PM »
Interesting read Andy to tell you the truth I don’t think I could live with a car which has dirty oil every time you check it😀.My old petrol Mazda oil stays clean as a whistle between services and the level does not go up or down ,even though there’s 83000 miles on it now.hopefully the new petrol skyactive x engine will be a success,and phase out the diesels.

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2019, 12:36:41 PM »
Interesting read Andy to tell you the truth I don’t think I could live with a car which has dirty oil every time you check it😀.My old petrol Mazda oil stays clean as a whistle between services and the level does not go up or down ,even though there’s 83000 miles on it now.hopefully the new petrol skyactive x engine will be a success,and phase out the diesels.

Unlike the Mazda diesels, the non-rotary petrol engines, and especially the port-injected ones like our 1.6s are very dependeable, if not the quickest (but are fine when compared to the opposition like the Focus mk2 1.6 petrol).  Mine has never used any oil, it's normally quite clean around service time (even when I've been doing nearer to the 12.5k service interval) and can still be easily revved up to over 5k revs for the occasional Italian tune-up, as well as being reasonably quiet and smooth the rest of the time.

I too will be waiting and seeing how the new SA-X engine does regarding Mazda's claims on mpg and performance, but especially on reliability over the longer term.  For new tech like that, I won't even consider one unless it has been proven for, well, at least a year, preferably 2-3 years or more, in case any issues crop up related to premature wear or expensive parts failures.  I would have less problems going for one sooner had Mazda follwed the likes of Toyota in going down the 5 year+ warranty route that Hyundai/KIA have gone down.

Even if I moved home/job and needed a diesel-engined car, I would still think twice about getting another Mazda.  Aftersales has always been (in the UK at least [Down Under initially appeared to be fine, but the Aussie government has just slapped Mazda with a big penalty over years' worth of poor aftersales customer service) its main issue, so it seems that Mazda generally needs to get a grip on reliability and customer service worldwide. They are too small a player to be able to afford a Dieselgate-style debacle, and probably why they are going back to their roots in seemingly phasing out diesels apart from a few select (large) models and vans/trucks, as well as the tie-up with Toyota to produce proper hybrids (not just the 'mild' ones like in the gen-4 Mazda3) and EVs.

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2019, 06:52:54 PM »
All I'm going to add is that it's currently diesel armageddon on the UK facebook every other post seems to be my 2.2 or 1.6d has either a random warning light or catastrophic failure.

Diesel Gen 2s appear to be dropping like flies at 8-10 years old. There's been a few scares about the gen 3 but it's too new to really be hitting the issues properly yet.

Obviously people seek help when it's broken but there's people who've put 2 or 3k into cars fixing engine fault after engine fault and then something big comes along that's literally unfixable without a full new engine.

You've got about a 20:1 ratio on posts about mechanical faults between petrol and diesel and in the general the petrol ones aren't serious or are at least fixable.

The only upside is if you need a set of gen 2 winter wheels the markets flooded there was a set of 4 sport wheels with tyres up for 80 quid.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 06:56:51 PM by StevenRB45 »

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2019, 02:05:23 PM »
Hi StevenRB45. I've just submitted a join request for that Facebook group. Mine's a 1.6d gen2 that is just the wrong side of that 8-10yo age bracket you just described. I'm hoping to get another two or three years at least out of it but it will be worth keeping an eye on the kind of issues that are causing similar ones to 'drop like flies'. I have a degree of confidence in mine because I know the former owner and that it has been cared for properly throughout its life but I know with some vehicles there are inherent weaknesses it is hard to mitigate the risks of. The only non-consumable expense so far has been refurbishing the turbo (£650) - which I am still not convinced was actually needed as the slight whining under acceleration is still present - and all mechanics who have performed maintenance say the internals look cleaner than they expected. I am very fond of the car, though, and there is no compelling reason to spend money on a replacement at present. Performance, economy, space and reliability have all been fine for me so far...

[cue catastrophic engine malfunction on way home this evening]
So I was stood there trying to work out why the cricket ball was getting larger and larger...and then it hit me.

Offline StevenRB45

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2019, 02:13:42 PM »
For the 1.6 theres nothing that doesn't fall under common faults for a PSA diesel. All cars with that engine share faults and even a simple thing like an unfixed leaking injector will kill the engine if left unfixed due to knock on issues.

Part of it will be these are old cars now, they've done some miles maintenance may not have been A1 in the past and its catching up.

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Re: 2.2 Diesel problems - still around?
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2019, 02:13:42 PM »