Author Topic: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS  (Read 25685 times)

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Offline matthewjtalbot

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Hi Folks.
Im new to the forum so please be gentle. LOL.

Heres a story that you first hope you never have.  Sorry its a bit long.

We purchased a 59 plate Mazda 3 185 2.2d Sport Nav,  back in Sept 2009 and have absolutely loved owning it.

Power, economy, comfort, equipment level a pretty much all round fantastic car.  It was our very first brand new car and was really looking forward to many years of enjoyment out of it.

Using this forum and other online resources has slowly made me become a bit weary to the 3's quirks (DPF etc).  This was until last fri 7/6/2013 when my wife was going to work when the oil light started to flicker at about 30 mph going along an main A road.  She immediately stopped the car and turned it off, then rang me.  I explained what it was and told her to leave it a few mins and try and restart it.  It started again ok. no light so she set back of to come home like we agreed.  As she pulled off the oil light started to flicker again but without any bad engine noises or anything so she drove very very carefully the 1.5 miles back home.

When she got home the cam followers started to tap as she drove it up the drive so she turned it off and we pushed it up the drive but by now the oil light was virtually on permanently.  We had to leave the car for the weekend due to the problems and i did some research on the forum and various other places and had come to the conclusion the pump had gone..  I tried to start the car again sunday night and the oil light was off for about 30 secs then came on again and the cam followers just started to tap again.  I had at that point resigned myself to a new oil pump, labour etc  and was hoping we hadnt done too much damage to bearings, crank, cams etc.

We towed the car to my brothers garage some 25 miles away and boy the steering is a monster when the cars not running. lol.  

The car had been serviced at 12466, 25111, 37705 and 50198 so pretty close to the 12500 miles of the Mazda standard schedule of service intervals and total mileage was 51501, all services done at a Main Mazda dealership in Stoke-on-trent.  This meant the car had only done 1400 miles since last service.

On inspection i was pretty sure i was gonna see a sump full of metal filings and a knackered oil pump.  But I WAS GOBSMACKED.  The oil and sump was spotless, no sign of anything EXCEPT my next suprise.  The  oil pump strainer / pickup gauze on the very bottom of the oil pump was absuolutely solid with oil carbon deposits to a point that it could not drain oil past never mind suck oil from the sump.  This was confirmed when i removed the strainer and a half a pint of oil splattered everywhere.  The oil could not drain through the clogged strainer.  

The strainer was cleaned and refitted.  the sump plate was cleaned and refitted.  The oil was renewed along with a new filter and fingers were crossed.

The car struck up at first fire and the oil light went straight out.  The engine sat at tick over for a few mins and i took it for a test drive and all seemed fine.  We have now put a further 100 miles on the car and all seems good.

THIS THREAD IS TO ALLLLLL MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS.  Even if you have your car serviced as per the Mazda schedule, please be aware that there is a fundermental design fault with this engine that allows carbon to build up on the oil pump inlet strainer.  The oil pump inlet is very very close to the sump pan at the lowest point of the sump.  It has less than 1cm clearance from the oil pick-up to the sump pan plate. PLEAE BE AWARE THIS STRAINER NEEDS TO BE CHECKED AND CLEANED IF NEEDED ON A REGUALAR BASIS.  We now feel that the engine had been not quite running as smoothly for some 7 to 8k miles..  Now the strainers cleaned it feels like the engines runs as smooth as when new.

PLEASE GET THIS STARINER CHECKED AND CLEANED.  We plan on checking and cleaning this half way between every service from now on even though it will cost us an oil and filter change.  But peace of mind is the number one priority.

WE HAVE BEEN VERY LUCKY

We hope this thread can be made into a sticky to try and hopefully save someone going through a stressful headache like we have recently and safegaurd someone elses pride and joy.

Thank you so much for reading

We are extatic at the outcome.  From a min £800+ repair to a £45 repair.  With thanks to my fantastic wife for undestanding her car so well.

Hope this helps someone else.

Cheers

Matthew Talbot
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 10:19:14 PM by matthewjtalbot »

Offline NUFC19

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2013, 09:50:54 PM »
Very informative, thanks for sharing
Did you renew the sump gasket, when you refitted it
Must say never heard of this problem before, hopefully just a one off.
I was thinking of dropping my oil every 6 month as think yearly is a bit to long for oil pollution.
 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 10:59:46 PM by FemGearHead »

Offline gazpot0111645

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2013, 09:55:35 PM »
Strange to hear that you suffered from this, i see these in for service every day with mileages ranging from 10000-150000 and have never heard of this happening. Glad to hear you solved your issue. Nice of you to take your time and inform others of this problem.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 10:59:58 PM by FemGearHead »
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Offline Willpower

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 10:08:51 PM »
Matthewjtalbot.   You have a PM
 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 03:52:44 PM by FemGearHead »
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Offline matthewjtalbot

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 10:15:00 PM »
Hi Guys

Thanks for the replies.

There is no sump gasket on the 2.2d is High Temp silicone sealer type gasket only so no expensive gasket either to check and clean strainer.

If you look at this issue on honestjohn and other mazda forums there is a good few issues where customers have totalled their engines and mazda have blamed this fault as the reason for engine failure.  The customers  have ended up paying for the engine replacement / repair themselves as mazda have managed to use a loophole somehow by how the service schedule has not been adhered to as the reason and washed their hands of responsibilty.

If me posting this saves 1 other persons pride and joy i will be most happy

Cheers

Matt
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 11:00:16 PM by FemGearHead »

Offline makkmartono

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2013, 10:46:50 PM »
Thanks for the info. It is shocking though. To be honest I would buy another Mazda as I love the car, but I hate their customer service and their honesty about the faults with their products. So once this one goes I doubt it i will buy another one.
Dream as if you will live forever, live as if you will die today

Offline The Bun-yip

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2013, 03:38:33 PM »
Hi all,

Whilst something like this bedevilled the 2.0 Diesel the 2.2 Diesel seemed to have left the problem behind. The difficulty is identifying the source of that carbon that is not removed by the oil filter. It is possible that what has changed is an unintended consequence of the current UK use of 7% to 15% biodiesel whether we like it or not.

Inevitably some biodiesel gets into the engine lubrication and because of the differing characteristics of biodiesel it does not just evaporate and "probably" hangs about to cause this canonization problem.

There is an interesting pdf document called "Presentation - Biodiesel and Eclipse" located towards the bottom left of this page: http://www.millersoils.co.uk/commercial/tds-commercial-vehicle.asp?prodsegmentID=745&sector=Fleet Whilst the "Eclipse" Fuel additive product may help with more efficient use of 7%+ Biodiesel fuel. Millers Oils do not claim that its use will prevent the sort of oil filtration problem here although some form of combustion improving additive such as "Eclipse" (available from Opie Oils) may be worthwhile.

It would therefore seem likely that to prevent such problems and avoid the need to drop the sump and clean the sump oil strainer at every service the following may be preferable.

1. Periodically test the quality of the oil in your engine using a simple test kit. You may choose to test a range of fluids using a kit like this: http://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/product.php/324/powerenhancer-oil---fluid-test-kit
or just concentrate on the lubricating oil with this kit: http://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/product.php/433/fluid-rx-crankcase-motor-oil--test-kit

2. Change the oil and oil filter more frequently. Say mid way between official services.

3. Use an oil flush product at each oil change as recommended for protecting the turbo bearing from carbon damage in the 1.6 Diesels.

4. Should an oil additive appear from a supplier with a known track record able to publish test information on Dispersing Biodiesel carbon particles in engine oil I would consider it. As yet I have not seen anything that suggests that a solution is currently available (mid 2013)

On the other hand some may think that the cost of dropping the sump and cleaning the oil pump strainer is to be preferred.


Offline NUFC19

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2013, 09:36:11 PM »
Hi all,

Whilst something like this bedevilled the 2.0 Diesel the 2.2 Diesel seemed to have left the problem behind. The difficulty is identifying the source of that carbon that is not removed by the oil filter. It is possible that what has changed is an unintended consequence of the current UK use of 7% to 15% biodiesel whether we like it or not.

Inevitably some biodiesel gets into the engine lubrication and because of the differing characteristics of biodiesel it does not just evaporate and "probably" hangs about to cause this canonization problem.

There is an interesting pdf document called "Presentation - Biodiesel and Eclipse" located towards the bottom left of this page: http://www.millersoils.co.uk/commercial/tds-commercial-vehicle.asp?prodsegmentID=745&sector=Fleet Whilst the "Eclipse" Fuel additive product may help with more efficient use of 7%+ Biodiesel fuel. Millers Oils do not claim that its use will prevent the sort of oil filtration problem here although some form of combustion improving additive such as "Eclipse" (available from Opie Oils) may be worthwhile.

It would therefore seem likely that to prevent such problems and avoid the need to drop the sump and clean the sump oil strainer at every service the following may be preferable.

1. Periodically test the quality of the oil in your engine using a simple test kit. You may choose to test a range of fluids using a kit like this: http://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/product.php/324/powerenhancer-oil---fluid-test-kit
or just concentrate on the lubricating oil with this kit: http://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/product.php/433/fluid-rx-crankcase-motor-oil--test-kit

2. Change the oil and oil filter more frequently. Say mid way between official services.

3. Use an oil flush product at each oil change as recommended for protecting the turbo bearing from carbon damage in the 1.6 Diesels.

4. Should an oil additive appear from a supplier with a known track record able to publish test information on Dispersing Biodiesel carbon particles in engine oil I would consider it. As yet I have not seen anything that suggests that a solution is currently available (mid 2013)

On the other hand some may think that the cost of dropping the sump and cleaning the oil pump strainer is to be preferred.


Good read that..

Offline Bubbs

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 10:15:15 PM »
Almost exactly the same thing has happened to my 10 plate Mazda 3 2.2 150, which has done about 30,000 miles.

The story is very similar to Matthew's first post in this thread.

Back in early June I was driving home from work when the oil light started to flicker faintly. I pulled off the road immediately and turned the engine off.

I checked the oil level on the (VERY difficult to read) dipstick and after about 10 attempts, decided that there was indeed oil present. Opened the oil filler cap and had a look in at the top as well - oil there too.

Got back in the car, took a deep breath, and turned the key. The car started again. Oil lamp off. All is well, I thought. Carried on down the road, and it started to flicker again. So, I stopped again and repeated the process, level OK.

There was / is no tapping that I could perceive, certainly no horrible metallic banging or anything like that. In fact, at tickover, the car sounded exactly the same as it always had, likewise when driving etc. I was inclined at this point to think that the sensor was on the way out.

I carried on home, and the following day checked the level again some 10 - 15 times, and concluded that the low pressure light was not coming on due to a lack of oil.

I fired the car up the next day. No oil light. I turned it off, and on again, and off again, and on again. Revved the engine, etc etc. Still no light. I figured that all was well. For the next 6/7 weeks the light did not reappear. I continually checked the level every day, just in case, but saw no changes.

Then, last week, probably 1000 miles or so later, the light came on again. Car straight to the garage, as I know that little red oilcan light is one that you don't really want to see EVER.

The garage took the sump off, and found the oil strainer blocked. I have not seen how bad the blockage was, but it was evidently blocked enough to reduce the oil pressure and trigger the light when the engine was run above 2000rpm. We had the strainer cleaned out, refilled the thing with oil, changed the oil filter (naturally), and it seems to be running ok.

I have seen posts on Mazda 6 forums regarding the '6 2.2 engines having blocked strainers too.

My 3 has always been serviced by a Mazda dealer, on time, every year.


I would love to know what causes this blockage, but I suspect that it could be either fuel / carbon deposits getting into the sump, or perhaps the pick-up mesh is too fine and clogs easily.

Or, perhaps there is another fault elsewhere which leads to this issue.

Certainly, point 4 of the The Bun-yip's sticky (here: http://www.mazda3forums.co.uk/index.php?topic=11615.0) seems to describe almost exactly the same issue that myself and Matthew have had. I also see that Jungle has had something similar on his recently purchased 95 plate 2.2 (here http://www.mazda3forums.co.uk/index.php?topic=12073.0).


I can see Matthew's not logged in on here since June time (I wish I'd seen his post back then when that my light flickered briefly!), but I would be interested to find out whether everything has been ok with his car since.

I fear it might be time to move on from the 2.2.

Offline The Bun-yip

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2013, 09:03:32 AM »
Hi Bubbs,

Until we hear anything to the contrary I would assume that the unintended consequence of increased Bio-Diesel is the most likely culprit. If you adopt the modified maintenance ideas I suggested above you should be able to continue to enjoy the Zoom Zoom.

Should you choose to look at the published reliability survey data for Mazda and other manufacturers you would probably conclude that switching to another manufacturer could well be a step 'out of the fat and into the fire'.

Offline Bubbs

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2013, 03:11:16 PM »
Hi Bun-yip.

I did wonder if it was fuel related, perhaps it is. Now, I don't generally buy into this filling station variable fuel mixture thing that floats around - to me, diesel is diesel and whether you're buying it from Shell, Esso or Asda, shouldn't make any difference. However, that said, I have generally filled my car up at the same garage (Morrisons) for the last 3 years. Maybe they're using a concentration of biodiesel in their mix which is more towards the upper end of the scale?

Although something I forgot to mention was that in the initial investigation of the problem, they also found that there was a hissing noise from #3 injector, which... erm.... well, I don't know whether that is related or not. I was more worried about getting the oil lamp out short-term (which still cost a fair bit, considering diagnostic time, etc etc). The #3 injector remains as-is for the moment. I don't know whether Matthew has a similar issue with one of his injectors or not. If he does, then - well, perhaps that's one possible cause.

The concern I have is that I don't know if this strainer build up has been taking place since the car rolled out of the factory (in which case you could say the timer is reset now), or if it's something else going on which causes it to clog much quicker. (#3 injector?).

Anyhow short term I will certainly be looking at keeping a close eye on the oil quality. I always used to change the oil on my car at 6 month intervals when I worked at a garage (cos it was easy). Certainly sounds like a good idea to restart that habit.

Offline The Bun-yip

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2013, 06:41:22 PM »
Hi Bubbs,

That hissing noise from No 3 Injector would be worth some follow up in my opinion.

I have seen a few reports that the First Gen 16 valve versions of the PSA/Ford 1.6 diesel also have a No 3 Injector problem. It may only hit a tiny number of us, but when it does it can be catastrophic. It seems that the two small nuts that fix the injector into the head can come a little loose allowing an escape that destroys the injector seal and carbons up the engine badly. Turbo failure from the contaminated lubrication results. Before that happens the sound of the failing injector seal is described as Chuffing. Caught early the problem is not too bad to solve. If left....

I discussed the 1.6 turbo problem here.http://www.mazda3forums.co.uk/index.php?topic=11622.0
This bit shows the damage that can be caused by a failed injector deal.
Quote
Fault conditions: Download the "important presentation" by clicking on Carbon build up in a 1.6 HDi PSA Group engine can lead to total turbocharger failure!! at the bottom of the left hand column. See: http://www.assuredperformance.ie/home

I have not seen any mention of this as a problem with the 2.2 but as it could be another possible contributor to the carbon build up it would seem worth investigating further. Of course 'Chuffing' and 'Hissing' are not the same and are probably different faults.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

Offline Bubbs

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2013, 11:51:30 PM »
I shall be speaking to a couple of Mazda dealers tomorrow re #3 injector.

Found this on the Mazda 6 forum this evening -  http://www.mazda6forums.co.uk/index.php?topic=1648.0

Every car is different, but this is waaaay too similar to the problems that have been mentioned in a few threads over here on the Mazda 3 side, and my own experience with carbon buildup in the sump.

The word 'injector' on my initial investigation report, combined with the issues in the above mentioned thread, suggest to me that this may be an identical problem.

If I can get all 4 seals replaced without huge expense then I may just do so to be safe. Wary about trying to do it myself, in case I break something.  :-\

Offline The Bun-yip

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2013, 10:30:52 AM »
Hi Bubbs,

So it does indeed look as if the security of the injector seating/seal is an issue for the Mazda 2.2 diesel engine too. Your search seems to have found enough evidence to suspect that looking after the seals would be a good idea. Problems with injector seals appears to be a common Diesel problem. So much so that there are specialists with tools and services covering most if not all of the country just set up to remove injectors that have become seized in the head.

Removing injectors and replacing seals is a fairly straightforward task (with all the required tools) if undertaken before severe carbonisation contamination jams the injector in the head. If that happens it can often get beyond a DIYer. Damaged even destroyed injectors can result in those cases.

I have begun to form an opinion not much different from the Mazda6 forum poster. To me it now seem worth checking the torque of the injector fixings say every service. I would replace the seals at the first sign of any leakage from around the Injectors be that 'Chuffing' of 'Hissing'. Replacing injector seals at the 37500 service frequency may be a bit conservative but would be a lot cheaper than replacing a blown engine.

For the 1.6 engine finding the Torque settings for the injector clamp bolts was easy (4Nm + Angle tighten 45o) for the 2.2 which is bound to have a different setting that could be a bit of a challenge. No Haynes manual and no easy access to a workshop manual.

Offline Bubbs

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2013, 12:43:50 PM »
I have learned that Mazda have issued a technical service bulletin relating to this problem, so it is a known 2.2 issue.

Furthermore, the process really should be to do the injector side first and then the sump strainer. If you do the sump first, the process of removing and replacing the injectors can cause carbon to fall back down into the sump and block the strainer again. Plus, ideally, you'd remove the injectors, clean the oil ways, clean the strainer, etc and then refit everything. But this is expensive work. Moreso if an injector (or injectors) breaks upon removal - if it turns out that they're badly carbonised.

In effect I've had the second part of the job done first. I just wish I knew how much time and/or mileage that sump strainer clean out had bought me. The garage did apparently tighten my #3 injector as it was slightly loose, but whether that has put paid to the gas getting out for the time being remains to be seen.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 04:23:30 PM by Bubbs »

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Re: Oil Light Flicker / Stays On. CALLING MAZDA 3 & 6 2.2D DRIVERS
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2013, 12:43:50 PM »